This video exposes the ignorance of many professing Christian, and the need for churches to catechize the people once again. Not these silly little 15-25 minute things that some pastors are calling sermons.
Mark Driscoll’s review on “The Shack”
15 Sunday Feb 2009
Posted in Religion - Doctrine
Amen! Driscoll blows The Shack out of the water. It is so refreshing to hear someone thinking criticaly and biblicaly concerning this heretical book.
I hear you Brock! Whenever I see how undiscerning Christians are I get discouraged. But men like Driscoll, Piper, and many other good men are being raised up by God to protect His Bride from false teachings and teachers. Blessings!
-Stephen
@ Brock,
by the way, welcome to my blog! I am honored to have you visit. Thanks again! Blessings!
This is a really good video!! It’s so great to hear biblical truth being spoken! Some other really good speakers are David Platt and Paul Washer if you’ve ever heard of them you should listen to some of their stuff too. Question though. I love listening to music, but I know that a lot of Christian musicians are involved in the emergent church and other fluffy, heretical teachings. You don’t happen to know some solid Christian bands do you??
Hey Stephanie,
I am glad to see you stop in and glad the video was a blessing to you. I love Paul Washer but I have never heard of David Platt. As far as music goes check out sovereign grace music. They have tons of great stuff. I am also a fan of Andrew Peterson, Michael Card, and if you are a fan of hip-hop there are tons of good artist. I hope that helps! God Bless!!!
-Stephen
Interpretation is so important when we come to God’s Word! Pray for me this semester that God will help me rightly handle His Word! Thanks!
My name is Aram and I just finished reading The Shack. I then went online and happened across a bunch of people arguing about it, for what looks like a few years now. People are calling this a heresy, a dangerous book, and warning people not to read it.
Why?
I normally never comment on these things, but being an unbeliever – yes that’s right, I am not a Christian – I thought it might be useful for some of these theology spouting authorities to take a moment and look at what I, not a churchgoer in any way, have gleaned from this little book. And then ask yourself – because I really don’t know much about the Bible – is anything I learned leading me in the wrong direction? Perhaps all the way to this burning lake of fire so many Christians love trying to scare non-Christians with? If this is the case, then I guess you’re right, and based on what you believe people shouldn’t read this book.
For me, I don’t believe fear and rules to be the answer, I never have. This has been the main reason for my avoidance of the church. However, when you preach love and forgiveness, through whatever means conveys it the best, whether fiction or otherwise, well now, my heart begins to open a tad. It makes me actually want to pick up a Bible perhaps and maybe read a little further.
Teach love my Christian friends, because people like me, we don’t respond well to fear tactics. And we definitely don’t get turned on by arrogant church leaders who think they have it all figured out.
Below are 57 new ideas I took away from this little book. Many are direct quotes from the book itself.
1. The different appearances of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were used to help Mack break his religious conditioning.
2. You don’t get brownie points for doing something through obligation; only if you want to.
3. Life takes a lot of time and a lot of relationship.
4. How free are we really? – family genetics, social influences, personal habits, advertising, propaganda & paradigms etc. Freedom is an incremental process that happens inside a relationship with Jesus Christ.
5. When all you can see is your pain, perhaps then you lose sight of God.
6. Pain has a way of clipping our wings, so we can’t fly. After awhile we forget we were ever created to fly.
7. When Jesus became a man he gave up his own ability to heal people and do miracles. His miracles were accomplished by Jesus’ (a man, a dependent limited human being) trust in the Father God. We are all designed to live like that, out of God’s life and power.
8. God exists in three persons so we, his creation, can also live in love and relationship, just like God does. If God didn’t, we couldn’t. “God cannot act apart from love.”
9. Relationships are never about power, and one way to avoid wanting power is to limit oneself – to serve.
10. Sin is its own punishment, devouring from the inside. It’s not God’s purpose to punish it; it’s God’s joy to cure it.
11. When people choose independence over relationship, we become a danger to each other.
12. If people learned to regard each other’s concerns as significant as their own, there would be no need for hierarchy. God does not relate inside a hierarchy; God wants us to trust him because he will never use or hurt us.
13. When Christians don’t trust God it’s because they don’t know they are loved by him. They think God is not good.
14. Mack says: “I just can’t imagine any final outcome that would justify all this (pain, suffering etc).” Papa replies: “We’re not justifying it. We are redeeming it.”
15. The choice of God to hide so many wonders from man is an act of love that is a gift inside the process of life.
16. For any created being, autonomy is lunacy.
17. When something happens to us, how do we determine whether it is good or bad? By whether we like it or if it causes us pain. This is self-serving and self-centred.
18. We become the judge of good and evil; so when each person’s good and evil clashes with someone else’s, fights, even wars, break out.
19. Eating of the tree tore the universe apart, divorcing the spiritual from the physical. All of us died, expelling the very breath of God.
20. We play God in our independence. The only remedy is to give up the right to decide good and evil and choose to live in God and trust and rest in his goodness.
21. God is light and God is good. Removing ourselves from God will plunge us into darkness. Declaring independence will result in evil because apart from God, you can only draw on yourself. That is death, because you have separated yourself from God, from Life.
22. This concept is difficult for us because the good may be the presence of cancer or the loss of income, or even a life. Sarayu answers: “Don’t you think we care about these people who suffer too? Each of them is the centre of another story that is untold.”
23. About having ‘rights’: “‘Rights’ are where survivors go so they won’t have to work out relationships.”
24. Jesus gave up his rights so his dependent life would open a door that would allow us to live free enough to give up our rights.
25. Each of us is wild, beautiful, and perfectly in process when God is working with a purpose in our hearts. We are an emerging, growing, and alive pattern – a living fractal.
26. We tend to live either in the past or the future; dwelling on the pain and the regret of the past, instead of a quick visit to learn something from it. Or fearing the future, letting our imagination run wild with worry, and forgetting to see the future with Jesus. This happens when: a. we don’t really know we’re loved and b. we don’t believe that God is good.
27. Apart from Jesus’ life, we cannot submit one to another. Jesus’ life is not an example to be copied. Jesus came to live his life in us; so we will see with God’s eyes, hear with his ears, love with his heart, and touch with his hands.
28. Some say love grows, but it is the knowing that grows and love simply expands to contain it. Love is the skin of knowing.
29. We human beings are constantly judging others because we are self-centred.
30. We say: “Predators deserve judgment, their parents, too, for twisting them, and their parents, and on and on, until finally we go right back to Adam, and then, why not judge God? He started it all…isn’t God to blame for our losses? He could have not created, or he could have stopped the killer, but he didn’t.” If we can judge God so easily then, of course, we can judge the world. We must then (e.g.) choose two of our five children to go to heaven and three to go to hell, because that’s what we believe God does. Mack could not choose any one of his children because he loved them no matter what they did. So instead, he begged that he could go to hell for his children. This response is exactly what Jesus did. Mack judged well. He judged his children worthy of love, even if it cost him everything. This is how Jesus loves. ‘And now we know Papa’s heart.”
31. God’s love is so much larger than our sin could ever be.
32. Evil was never a plan of God’s. We must return from our independence, give up being his judge, and know God for who he is.
33. When we receive God’s love and stop judging him we let go of the guilt and despair that had sucked the colours of life out of everything.
34. God never abandons his children. We are never alone. God could no more abandon us than he could abandon himself.
35. “Live loved.”
36. When we leave the light of God and retreat to the darkness all alone, the darkness makes our fears, lies, and regrets bigger in the dark. Sometimes, as a kid, doing this is part of survival, but now we must come to the light.
37. Jesus will travel any road to find his children. But only one road leads back to heaven.
38. Stories about a person willing to exchange their life for another reveal our need and God’s heart.
39. Even though God can work incredible good out of unspeakable tragedies, it does not mean God caused it. Where there is suffering, you will find grace in many facets and colours.
40. ‘Love’ bothers to keep trying to touch people and never gives up.
41. Sometimes we hide inside lies that justify who we are and what we do.
42. Ask for forgiveness and let the forgiveness heal you. Take the risk of honesty. Faith does not grow in the house of uncertainty.
43. Our transformation is a miracle greater than raising the dead.
44. All evil flows from independence.
45. God’s purposes are always and only an expression of love. God works life out of death, freedom out of brokenness, and light out of darkness.
46. Emotions are neither good nor bad. They are the colours of the soul. They are spectacular and incredible.
47. The more you live in the truth, the more our emotions will help you see clearly.
48. Trying to keep the law is actually a declaration of independence, a way of keeping control. Keeping the law grants us the power to judge others and feel superior.
49. Responsibility and expectation are dead nouns, full of judgment, guilt, and shame. Our identity becomes wrapped up in performance. The opposite is when God gives us an ability to respond that is free to love and serve in every situation, with God in us; and expectancy is alive and dynamic with no concrete expectation – only the gift of being together.
50. To the degree we live with expectations and responsibilities is the degree we fear and the degree we don’t trust or know God.
51. If God is the centre of everything, then together we can live through everything that happens to us.
52. Forgiveness is big.
53. When bad things happen, what God had to offer us in response is his love, goodness, and relationship with us.
54. God doesn’t do humiliation, guilt, or condemnation. They don’t produce one speck of wholeness or righteousness.
55. Forgiving isn’t about forgetting; it’s about letting go of another person’s throat.
56. Forgiveness does not create a relationship; it simply removes them from your judgment.
57. Because you are important to God, everything you do is important.
I gotta tell you, this book made me want to explore the idea of God a little more, and I just can’t see how that is a bad thing.
Hey aramac77,
I was baptized about a year ago so I can definitely understand, at least in part, the struggle you must be going through right now. I think its awesome that you are seeking Jesus! It’s also awesome that the Spirit is using this fictional book to soften your heart. Please understand that Christians are sorrowful when people don’t accept Christ because of the opportunity they miss in spending an eternity with the Father in heaven – its really not about punishment. That is also why we rejoice when someone does accept his call! You read the words of a man and have open your heart, now please please go and read the WORD of God. It truly is the living Word of the living God. God is love and more, only through seeking him in his own Word will you come to understand this. Peace and my God be with you on your walk.
It was reassuring to watch this video presentation. I started reading The Shack when I heard all the buzz about it. But it disturbed me right from the start and I put it back on the shelf. Thanks for posting!
There is no possible way this book is heresy! I have read it three times and I now feel more and more like I want to know God because He is love and His love leads us to repentance. No sermon (and I have listened to thousands) has ever done that because many preachers don’t really have a relationship with God themselves. How can they impart life when they don’t possess it themselves? This kind of video paints a picture of a “man of God” standing outside the kingdom telling others they cannot enter and standing in the way of what God wants to show His people. You are on very dangerous ground Mr. Driscoll with your comments about God. Please step out of the way.
Please step out of the way and let God speak to His people for Himself. You are not the mediator between God and His people. Jesus is.
God has spoken to us in the last days through His son. That is, the New Testament. Pastor Driscoll is preaching from the new testament which is commanded by God to all Pastors who act as under-shepherds to the Shepherd Jesus. I don’t see the problem.
First, let me get this straight, this book can’t be heresy because you read it three times and now you “feel” loved by God.
Second, are you claiming Pastor Driscoll is not saved? Do you have any reason to bring such a charge against ones of God’s appointed pastors?
Lastly, Driscoll is simply correcting false doctrine. Paul commended the same to Timothy. To defend and deliver the faith that was once and for all. The shack denies many of those core doctrines. Read 2 Thess., 1 & 2 Timothy, 1,2, & 3 John, Jude. All these books involve minsters correcting false teaching. This is not standing in the way of God! This directing men and women to God!
Mark Driscoll is sometimes on the money, and sometimes he’s out to lunch, just like any regular human being.
Mark’s argument #1 – idolatry. What about Narnia? Why Is representing God as a lion ok? The person of the holy spirit is represented as being simply the breath of Aslan – which turns a member of the trinity into a “force” instead of a person! And God the father is spoken of as the “Emperor-Over-The-Sea” which implicates he has physical form as well.
What about the parables? Jesus often used physical people to represent a particular aspect of God.
Since Mark quotes scripture to support his argument, let’s take a look at the second commandment:
NIV
“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me”
NKJ
You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.
NAS
“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.5 “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God”
Nothing there about graven images, so let’s take a look at the original King James:
KJ
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God
Mark, however, misquotes the passage. The Bible does not say “do not make a graven image of God”, the bible says do not make a graven image of ANYTHING and WORSHIP it.
The amplified Bible makes this clear:
“You shall not make yourself any graven image [to worship it] or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;”
For you see the principle of the commandment is clearly NOT about creating images at all, it’s about worship. And so we don’t have to worry because the Shack in no way encourages people to worship black women.
In this clip Mark is clearly adding to the word of God which is expressly forbidden. He is, in fact, doing exactly what the serpent did to Eve in the Garden. He is repeating 90% of what God actually said, but twisting the remaining 10% to suit his purposes. Not cool Mark, not cool.
Argument 2 – Goddess worship.
Mack refers to God as “Papa” (a male name) and “Father” a male name. What the Shack is attempting to do is to make us realize that God is not a Man, he might be “the Father” but he is not have the limitations of a Man. He is bigger then the box we try and put him in.
God has “female” characteristics, like when the Bible talks about God gathering his people under his wing – like a HEN does with HER chicks.
The Shack isn’t saying God’s female, it’s saying God is bigger then what your perceptions of him are.
Argument 3 – Modelism
Throughout the book the trinity is shown to be three distinct personalities that are in perfect relationship with each other. Mark yanks one sentence out of context and paints the whole book with that one brush. This is simply not the case.
My interpretation of that one sentence is that God the Father perfectly understands what it means to be human because he perfectly knows the Son.
Another way to look at is, didn’t God the Father flow through the Son while he was human? Didn’t he reside within Jesus giving him direction, power and strength? Wouldn’t that interaction give God the Father some insight on what it means to be human?
Finally, if it’s bad practice to draw conclusions from one verse of the Bible, isn’t it even more true for other books?
Argument 4 – Hierarchy
Again we’re back to yanking one sentence out of the book, but at any rate –
Mark is Right, while on Earth Jesus only did what the father told him to do. Why? Because he was showing us how to live. If he used his own God power while on earth, how would that be an example to us?
Is that how it was before time began? No one but God knows. Perhaps they only emulated a hierarchy for our benefit.
When you ignore that one sentence, however, you find God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit lovingly submitting to each other within the roles that they each play. If people did this would it really cause society to collapse as Mark indicates? My guess would be no.
But even if Mark is correct in argument 4, he has definitely failed to prove that the Shack is “heresy”
Update: Argument # 3 – Modelism
“Every Christian who seeks to articulate the Trinity is attempting to find the right balance between the unity or oneness of God and the distinction or threeness of God. However, this is a very difficult balance to maintain. As a result, theologians concerned to be fully orthodox have often found themselves charged with blundering near to one or another heresy.
[..]
So what if The Shack did veer toward modalism? That might warrant pastors warning against an imbalance at that point in the book and offering a gentle correction. Only if the book is flagrant in its espousal of a heresy would a shrill response like Driscoll’s be warranted. But the passages quoted above, while regrettable, are also ambiguous. It seems to me then that at the most these passages should be red flagged and prompt further discussion and enquiry. The book does not clearly teach modalism.
But we can go further, for the book actually denounces both modalism and tritheism. Consider the words of Papa: “We are not three gods, and we are not talking about one god with three attitudes, like a man who is a husband, father, and worker. I am one God and I am three persons, and each of the three is fully and entirely the one.” (p. 101) This denial of God being one individual with three attitudes is an explicit disavowal of the very doctrine that Driscoll accuses the book of espousing.
This leads me to a disturbing question. How could one of the fifty most influential pastors in America claim that a book teaches modalism when the book explicitly denounces modalism? I am left with the following possibilities. (1) Driscoll is malicious. He is intentionally deceiving people as to the content of The Shack. (2) Driscoll is incompetent. He does not know how to read a book. (3) Driscoll is irresponsible. He ventured an opinion without having carefully read the book.”
http://randalrauser.com/randalrauser.com/?p=34
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